if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Well done Jon!
you obviously don't understand the "exegesis", but have jumped over the culture of that time and are relying on the hermeneutics..of how to apply it today.
Well done Jon!
you obviously don't understand the "exegesis", but have jumped over the culture of that time and are relying on the hermeneutics..of how to apply it today.
ex·e·ge·sis (
k
s
-j
s
s)
ks-jss) n. pl. ex·e·ge·ses (-sz)
z) Critical explanation or analysis, especially of a text.
The terms exegesis and hermeneutics have been used interchangeably. However, hermeneutics is a more widely defined discipline of interpretation theory: hermeneutics includes the entire framework of the interpretive process, encompassing all forms of communication: written, verbal and nonverbal, while exegesis focuses primarily on the written text.
Increasing numbers of protestants are seeing and understanding and appreciating the necessity of the Church hierarchy, the Papacy, and being grounded in
BOTH sacred scripture and Tradition. AD 56 not many traditation were currupt as in 2012 ad
The Council at Jerusalem
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas.
With them they sent the following letter:
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.
28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.
28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
(ad 57) not 325 when
ad not 1555 ad
The Council of Trent played an important part of tradition . Any long term change in the Catholic Church depended on the attitude of the pope in power at one particular time.
not 1962
As Paul in ad 57 states in 2nd Thess 2:15 to Hold Fast to both his words and to Tradition!
This is before the increase of of false traditions of piety in the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, behaviors that are really acts of piety.
An absolute necessity for all Christians to properly understand Scripture, is to properly understand the Tradition from which they came from.
I cannot recommend enough the reference volumes called "The Faith of the Early Fathers" by William A Jurgens. These volumes are strictly direct writings of these fathers translated into English without any interpretations by the author. The volumes also have General, Scriptural, and Doctrinal indexes which are very helpful. It would be impossible to study the early Church Fathers without being directed to the same Doctrines and Dogma's of "The Church"...
"The Pillar and foundation of Truth" 1Tim 3:15.
I cannot recommend enough the reference volumes called "The Faith of the Early Fathers" by William A Jurgens. These volumes are strictly direct writings of these fathers translated into English without any interpretations by the author. The volumes also have General, Scriptural, and Doctrinal indexes which are very helpful. It would be impossible to study the early Church Fathers without being directed to the same Doctrines and Dogma's of "The Church"...
"The Pillar and foundation of Truth" 1Tim 3:15.
God Bless,
Robert
From: Jon <pax_65@...>
To: catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:13 AM
Subject: Catholic Questions Re: Hi Every One...
I think there are some language and grammar issues here, but I feel the need to chime in if I'm understanding this question and response correctly. To suggest that Catholics have the Pope while protestants have the Bible is really inaccurate.
The Catholic Church is the original Christian church that Jesus Christ founded.
Nearly all the beliefs of the Catholic Church,
including the Pope, not true ck your dates
the Sacraments, not true ck your dates
veneration of Mary, Ck your date of this it has not bee 1500 years
the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, way, off here , this is another area where you are very deceived
(Was not established until the following)
The Second Session of Trent
The Council was recalled to Trent for the second session in 1551. On the insistence of Charles V, Protestants were invited to attend. The Protestants came with two demands:
1) All bishops should be relieved from an oath of obedience to the Papacy.
2) The authority of the councils should be made superior to the Papacy.
Clearly this was unacceptable to the Church but the second session did declare that
· pilgrimages and penances were to be upheld
· the doctrine of transubstantiation was affirmed
· communion in both kinds was condemned as were other aspects of the Protestant view of the Eucharist.
This was an obvious snub against the Protestants and it also lead to an increase in the absolute power of the pope. The second session ended in 1552 as a result of the collapse of Charles Vs position in Germany and the menacing advance of Maurice of Saxony.
Confession (Reconciliation), etc. were accepted by Christians for the first 1500 years after Christ's time on earth.
Not true ck your dates see it's easy to be a roman catholic liar and deceiver
You can read the writings of early Christians like St. Justin Martyr (2nd Century) to verify this. See this link for more: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm.
The protestant reformation in the 16th century raised some serious issues in the church - not in terms of belief but in administration and corruption. After many years, this led to a split in Christianity which required changes in belief (such as denying the authority of the Pope since protestants would no longer obey that authority).
Once that first split was complete (the Lutheran church), many other protestant churches split from that, and the beliefs became more and more varied. At last count there are some 30,000 different protestant faiths, all with slightly different beliefs (although in some cases the specifics of their beliefs are unclear).
As Christians we all believe that the books of the Bible were divinely inspired. Practically speaking, the early Catholic Church debated and discussed which books would be admitted for about 400 years. Finally, around 410 we have the first recorded official list of the New Testament appearing in a letter from Pope Innocent I, and there is no evidence that the books were debated from that point on.
So while God provided the Bible for us, the authority of the Catholic Church in the early centuries helped affirm those books for all of us and end any debate as to which books should be included. Ironic, then, that protestants would attack the Catholic Church over the Bible which the Church played an important role in developing.
Bottom line: the Bible is very important to Catholics, as it is to all Christians.
I was a protestant for many years who converted to Roman Catholicism.
(was he led by the Holy Spirit)? the application is the bible is :
if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
These are the major differences as I see them:
REAL PRESENCE: Catholic believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (communion).
This belief is supported strongly in scripture and was the belief of all Christians prior to 1500. not true
the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, way, off here , this is another area where you are very deceived
Most protestant faiths today believe communion is a symbolic memorial, nothing more. (Some notable exceptions such at Lutherans believe in a Real Presence although some details vary.)
AUTHORITY OF THE POPE & CHURCH: The split away from the ROMAN Catholic Church required that protestants deny the authority of the Pope in order that they have the freedom to develop their own church and beliefs.
VENERATION OF MARY: The Mother of Christ was held in very high regard by early Christians and remains so in the Catholic Church. Most protestant faiths have lost this tradition.
SCRIPTURE VS TRADITION. Having denied the authority of the Roman Catholic Church, many protestant faiths put 100% authority to scripture as a foundation of their faith.
The Catholic Church has always maintained the importance of Holy Scripture but also recognizes Holy Tradition - basically the teachings of Christ and records of Christian history which were passed down orally from one generation to the next. In fact, it is from these Traditions that many of the Scriptures were written (in many cases, years after Christ walked the earth).
An example of this would be the Assumption of Mary - early Christians believed that Mary was taken up to heaven body and soul to recognize her important role in Christ's mission.
This was never written down in Holy Scripture, perhaps because it is not really relevant to our salvation, perhaps because it was never debated among Christians.
(Perhaps this is the fables and wifes tales that saint paul warned about in timithy)
6 If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters,[a] you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.
This is important if you are a Roman Catholic, many activities of piety do not increase spiritual relationship.
)
Still, it is interesting. Many things like that exist to form a deeper, more meaningful faith than what you'd get from Holy Scripture alone. Keep in mind - Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition cannot conflict with each other since they both come from the same source - Jesus Christ.
Other traditions of the Catholic Church. I put this as a small "t" - these are traditions like prayers and practices that in many cases have been practiced by Christians for thousands of years but have been lost in many protestant faiths. This includes prayers like the Rosary, appreciation of the saints, recognition of Lent and Advent (still recognized in some protestant faiths), sign of the cross, etc. Again, these things help create a deeper faith and connect us to the universal Church around the Earth and throughout history.
There you go... I haven't posted in months but just unloaded lots of info. That should give us something to talk about!
God bless!
Jon
The protestant reformation in the 16th century raised some serious issues in the church - not in terms of belief but in administration and corruption. After many years, this led to a split in Christianity which required changes in belief (such as denying the authority of the Pope since protestants would no longer obey that authority).
Once that first split was complete (the Lutheran church), many other protestant churches split from that, and the beliefs became more and more varied. At last count there are some 30,000 different protestant faiths, all with slightly different beliefs (although in some cases the specifics of their beliefs are unclear).
As Christians we all believe that the books of the Bible were divinely inspired. Practically speaking, the early Catholic Church debated and discussed which books would be admitted for about 400 years. Finally, around 410 we have the first recorded official list of the New Testament appearing in a letter from Pope Innocent I, and there is no evidence that the books were debated from that point on.
So while God provided the Bible for us, the authority of the Catholic Church in the early centuries helped affirm those books for all of us and end any debate as to which books should be included. Ironic, then, that protestants would attack the Catholic Church over the Bible which the Church played an important role in developing.
Bottom line: the Bible is very important to Catholics, as it is to all Christians.
I was a protestant for many years who converted to Roman Catholicism.
(was he led by the Holy Spirit)? the application is the bible is :
if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
These are the major differences as I see them:
REAL PRESENCE: Catholic believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (communion).
This belief is supported strongly in scripture and was the belief of all Christians prior to 1500. not true
the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, way, off here , this is another area where you are very deceived
Most protestant faiths today believe communion is a symbolic memorial, nothing more. (Some notable exceptions such at Lutherans believe in a Real Presence although some details vary.)
AUTHORITY OF THE POPE & CHURCH: The split away from the ROMAN Catholic Church required that protestants deny the authority of the Pope in order that they have the freedom to develop their own church and beliefs.
VENERATION OF MARY: The Mother of Christ was held in very high regard by early Christians and remains so in the Catholic Church. Most protestant faiths have lost this tradition.
SCRIPTURE VS TRADITION. Having denied the authority of the Roman Catholic Church, many protestant faiths put 100% authority to scripture as a foundation of their faith.
The Catholic Church has always maintained the importance of Holy Scripture but also recognizes Holy Tradition - basically the teachings of Christ and records of Christian history which were passed down orally from one generation to the next. In fact, it is from these Traditions that many of the Scriptures were written (in many cases, years after Christ walked the earth).
An example of this would be the Assumption of Mary - early Christians believed that Mary was taken up to heaven body and soul to recognize her important role in Christ's mission.
This was never written down in Holy Scripture, perhaps because it is not really relevant to our salvation, perhaps because it was never debated among Christians.
(Perhaps this is the fables and wifes tales that saint paul warned about in timithy)
1 Timothy 4
New International Version (NIV)
4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
6 If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters,[a] you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.
7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.
This is important if you are a Roman Catholic, many activities of piety do not increase spiritual relationship.
Romans 8
New International Version (NIV)
Life Through the Spirit
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.
)
Still, it is interesting. Many things like that exist to form a deeper, more meaningful faith than what you'd get from Holy Scripture alone. Keep in mind - Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition cannot conflict with each other since they both come from the same source - Jesus Christ.
Other traditions of the Catholic Church. I put this as a small "t" - these are traditions like prayers and practices that in many cases have been practiced by Christians for thousands of years but have been lost in many protestant faiths. This includes prayers like the Rosary, appreciation of the saints, recognition of Lent and Advent (still recognized in some protestant faiths), sign of the cross, etc. Again, these things help create a deeper faith and connect us to the universal Church around the Earth and throughout history.
There you go... I haven't posted in months but just unloaded lots of info. That should give us something to talk about!
God bless!
Jon
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